At least one area resident owns a .45 semi-automatic. The area needs "panhandler guidelines" to that businesses can operate without customers being pestered. Whsat do these people do when they aren't begging? Looking for hockable property that's left out to support alcohol/drug habits. They should not be allowed within 25 ft of any open business or it's parking lot.
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I'll bite - What are you talking about?
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So what if not all of us are armed? Would you like to take such a gamble? NOT ME! Too bad the panhandlers and ramp trash don't read these forums.
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@kerrizor - don't feed the troll - maybe it will go away.
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If you put up signs on his poles every 24 hours, he'll be too busy to post anything.
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I didn't say I was the one who was armed and I won't tell the identity of who is armed. "My" poles are the 2300 block of N. 45th St. I am not responsible for cleaning up the whole street. Just one small part.
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The ramp trash (good term) is getting more gutsy as time goes on. The laundramat that I go to (nearest one in my hood) is now completely taken over by the homeless, completely. All males, all drunk. The guy who does maintenance came by and encouraged patrons to call the police (nice atmosphere) and he permanently locked the bathroom door (reason for the homeless to be there). Within 5 minutes of his leaving, the homeless tried
the bathroom door, went out to their cars and opened the bathroom door with a key that they had had made. So now it is homeless central.A kind male waited for me while I did my laundry, so I wouldn't be alone with 20 or so drunk homeless men. I will never go back. Placed a call to the # on the wall but nothing will be done.
The homeless dress in the launrymat so are naked, putting on their washed clothing. Not a pretty site. Then they go across the street and buy more booze. Nice and homes here cost over a millin dollars!!!
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That's why I make DAMN SURE that our laundry room is locked when I leave. Warm & dry with no restroom so you know what they would do in there...urinate & defecate. Learn a lot of my slang from The Stranger as in "ramp trash" above.
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Aw gee, nativenw. You should be more tolerant of the "homeless." I mean,what possible reason would a woman have to be nervous around a bunch of filthy drunken bums? You're just be paranoid. And if you kick them out of the laundromat, they'll just go to Meridian Playground to do their thing. Oh wait, they already do. I was there over the weekend and watch three of them stroll from the laundromat to the park to have a nice little party.
Don't you understand that because they're "down on their luck," they deserve special rights to drink and defecate in public that the rest of us would be arrested for doing? And what is it with people always throwing around the term "down on their luck?" Hmmm, do you thin if they weren't getting hammered in the middle of the day, their luck might magically improve?
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Yeah and I'm an a..hole for saying to them, "There's a bank machine right over there" or in front of QFC when asked "spare change?" and replying "no thanks" or "no thanks I'm using my debit card."
I owe Ballard an apology BTW. Went there last Wednesday to go to a meeting and noticed that many of the poles had little or no postering on them. Those Sri Chimoy meditation people are a royal pain though. Notice the word FREE so perhaps I'll go and check it out to see just how "free" it is so as not to be guilty of comtempt prior to investigation. I will post a report. -
I hope that nativenw got some license plate numbers.
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Hi NativeNW and others. I'm so sorry about your recent experience at the laundromat. I've noticed some men outside the laundromat but I never peeked inside. That's horrible the owner doesn't care. It's also bad they had a key for the bathroom. I think I know the laundromat you're talking about. I wonder if that was part of the reason the nearby house took so long to sell. I know I wouldn't want to live next door to a gas station/711 and laundromat.
There was a really scary guy (I am 100% sure he has been arrested before) who growled/yelled in my toddler son's face when we were walking to Pudge Brothers pizza. My toddler was on my back in a carrier. I was livid. Then the guy started harassing us when we came out of Pudge Bros. His buddy called him off. I was really close to calling 911. I felt really scared. :(
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Kris (and others). I would have called 911. However, these individuals are not the window of homelessness. Fortunately most homeless people are really not bad and ARE down on their luck. There are a few on 45th (as everywhere) that really give the homeless a bad rap. There are about 5800 homeless people in Seattle on a given night according to http://www.homelessinfo.org/one_night_count/ . You are all discussing .17 percent of Seattle's homeless population. I know homeless people that are nicer than a lot of homed people. I know it is difficult not to for many reasons but please don't stereotype.
As for the original post.
NRA is ok! Its your right to arm yourself. And to other liberals like me, who disagree... JFK was a member too. -
Hi BagleyMan, good points. I fully support urban rest stops, free needle exchange programs, donate to Family Works and other charities. The guy who harassed me didn't seem like he was homeless, just a drug addicted creep.
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BagleyMan, if you're referring to my above comment, where is it that I stereotype all homeless like that? Of course there are legitimate and decent homeless out there. Just because I happen to describe a very small slice of the homeless population, specifically the ramp trash from 50th, doesn't mean I'm applying that to the homeless population as a whole. Now, does my description of the folks from the offramp treat them disrespectfully? Perhaps, but no moreso than how they treat our neighborhood. When it comes to the filth who drink in public, harass our neighbors, and take over and trash our playgrounds, it's about time we call a spade a spade
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I was referring to a few of the terms that have been written here...
"...specifically the ramp trash from 50th, doesn't mean I'm applying that to the homeless population as a whole."
As a whole? Maybe not. But it is a disparaging language of moral exclusion that that lumps all those on the ramp together and characterizes all of them as inferior or worth less than others. Have you ever spoken with Stanley or Rick, two of the "Ramp Trash" who are both "down and out". One is a laid off engineer with serious health issues leading to his homelessness and the other a cancer survivor that lost his home and family during his recovery, respectively. Both collectively clean up the corners and donate time at St. Marys to help others in their same situation. Neither drink and Stanley smokes marijuana... for his pain. Maybe if we take the time to talk to these people instead of rolling up our windows and locking our doors, we might think twice before calling them all "Ramp Trash". Like I said before, there are some individuals that dont do the community justice. If feel compelled, take action.
Yes, as the original post states, their may have to be some new guidelines the city should look into, which i believe they are, but the bigger picture needs to be looked at as well. Housing, guaranteed income, liberal unemployment benefits, and more rigorous tenants’ rights should be looked at. These are all things Germany has a budget for and their homeless problem is not nearly like ours. The problem is they are a country based on collectivism and we are individualistic. Part of being individualistic is that we do not want to spend money on or support others. What I think is interesting is that we are an individualistic society, not wanting to help or support others then complain about all the homeless around.
Believe me, if any person, homeless or not, assaults my family or myself, either 911 would get a call or if the situation dictated, I may be forced to draw a weapon for self-defense...
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I have spoken with some of these guys, although not for a year or two. Some of them freely admitted it was a lifestyle choice for them, as well as for many of their friends. No amount of taxpayer money will help people who don't want help. Yet you believe these guys are entitled to housing and guaranteed income, paid for by the rest of us? These guys spend all day bumming money for drugs/alcohol, and they're "earning' it tax free. So not only does the rest of society have to tolerate that, but we're supposed to turn a blind eye to what they do in our neighborhood? I'm sorry, but I don't want to give them a hug, and I'm really not interested in talking with them anymore. Most of them will give you some BS sob story anyway. If I want to give them anything, it's a one way bus ticket out of town. They don't have the right do what they please in residential neighborhoods like ours. Help those who seek, but don't enable bums who don't care about themselves or others.
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On a different note...I went to Swanson's Shoe Repair today and the woman who helped me was so incredibly nice! She fixed the zipper on my diaper changing pad. I asked her how much I owed her and she said one dollar! I wanted to tip her five dollars but she refused. She opened the door for us as we were leaving and gave us a huge smile. She made my day. I gave the five dollars to a woman (homeless, I'm not sure) sitting outside Whole Foods tonight. I noticed other people giving her money too.
I can see both sides...you both are making good points. I don't care for the term 'ramp trash' because it sounds derogatory to me. I think the Stranger may have been using it in a 'sassy,edgy' way. I worked in Law Enforcement for 18 years and I don't like it when people break the law. I also want to help children and families succeed.
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It's 1% that give the rest a bad name just like in the motorcycle community AKA "outlaw bikers". At least they brand themselves on their vests with a diamond shaped patch so you can spot them from a distance. An aggressive panhandler gets too close before it's realized. Supposedly the city is looking at laws about this activity being done near parking pay stations and/or bank machines. Aren't there already laws about this kind of behavior? The "poor peoples rights" group is against the city's new laws...of course. We're not saying they can't panhandle, just where.
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@kris
Handing $5 to a panhandler is a pretty ineffective way to help the needy. If you're serious about doing something to help underpriviledged families and children in our area, why not give the money to somebody who knows how to use it to accomplish things instead?Family Works is right here in Wallingford in the same building as the library, I've watched them at work since they moved up here from Fremont some ten+ years ago. Helping the working poor and the truly needy is their mission. I've never met a more dedicated group of folks and the organization is well respected for its effectiveness. Somehow Jake finds a way to leverage $5 to produce twice the benefit--or much more!
Giving money to a bum is throwing money away by comparison.
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Hi Iyqtoo, our family donated over one thousand dollars to Family Works last year. I love Family Works and the work they do. When I was working for the Sheriff's Office, I donated to four different charities each month. You are 100% correct when you say giving money to panhandlers is an ineffective way to help the needy. I know that.
I usually don't give out change to panhandlers, I just felt like I wanted to give the money to someone since the nice woman at Swanson's didn't accept it.
I consider giving the woman at Whole Foods some spare change like buying her a cup of coffee. Just a tiny gesture to let her know I care. :)
Thanks for the reminder about Family Works.
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"Dreaming of a cheeseburger" Fine. Buy them one. Just don't give them money. Simple.
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I'd rather let them choose their own.
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Beggars can't be choosers. If that's their mentality then they deserve to go hungry. I see big Greg is back at again in front of QFC & Bartells. Always say to him, "surprised to see you're still alive" when he's been gone for awhile. I know some of his history that I can't publish here but it makes me glad to be where I am.
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Where are you Burks? You mean in Wallingford or your stage of life or ???
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Here are the things that I agree with Burks about:
- He says he doesn't pull down signs that are within the law (have a date on them, etc.) I wish he wouldn't pull down any signs, but I appreciate that he's said publicly that he's abiding by the law.
- Don't give money to panhandlers. There are lots of better ways to help (e.g., giving money to agencies like FamilyWorks that can offer long-term assistance), and giving money is likely to be counterproductive (enables their level of dysfunction).
When I'm disagreeing with someone, I think it's important to say what we DO AGREE about, otherwise we're arguing just to argue.
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I'm glad to be in Wallingford instead of the CD or Rainier Valley. I don't have much. No car, etc. But I do pay my way in society to the tune of thousands a year in taxes. Some of which go to the VA so those "vets" with signs have an agency to help them. I didn't go to war...got a high lottery # but do support those who served in the military.
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The problem, though, is that burks *isn't* abiding by the law. Seattle Municipal Code 15.48 has been pointed out to him in the other thread, and unless he's been holding out on us, he isn't authorized to remove anything.
SMC 15.48.110
Removal authorized.For the purposes of SMC Section 15.48.120, the following persons are
authorized to remove any handbill, sign, or poster found affixed to any
object, and to obliterate any of the foregoing that is not readily removed,
in violation of Section 15.48.105:A. Any City officer or employee in the scope and course of his or her duties;
B. Any volunteer authorized by the City official with jurisdiction over the
property to which the handbill, sign, or poster was affixed or paint
applied; andC. Whenever a pole or other facility is subject to joint use by the City and
a franchisee, any officer or employee of the franchisee. -
Yes, but municipal codes can be amended by Ordinance, as SMC 15.48.100 was (Ordiance #121038. http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/docs/finalordinance_121038.pdf), then the whole thing is subject to interpretation by the department affected, DOT in this case, that resulted in a final ruling following public feedback in response to the Draft (Rule #02-02: http://seattle.gov/transportation/docs/sdot_dirrule_0202B.pdf). Who says Seattle doesn't have a process?!
THEN, some of the more interesting rulings get translated into layman's language and made available to the general public. This one can be found on the DOT website at http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/posteringrules.htm, New Postering Legislation Adopted, where the various DO's and DON'Ts of postering are made very clear. Regarding removal:
"The removal process:
The person or organization placing the signs is responsible for removing the signs;
City forces may remove expired signs at any time, but can collect costs only for those signs the City removes after the 10 day grace period;
The City may remove signs that violate the rules at any time and charge for the costs of removal. There is no grace period for signs in violation of the rules;
The City encourages self-policing and removal of expired posters so that City forces can be used on other priorities."So burks and others among us who remove postings that have expired or are in violation aren't only collecting litter, they're saving the organization that posted it from being fined!
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I think this whole thread would be easier to read without those silly "avatar" pictures. Did you know that you can set your own picture to go with your name? Just visit http://en.gravatar.com/ and set a picture to go with the e-mail address you're using here. It will show up here (and on other blogs that use gravatars) automatically.
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